Those present from the Bavarian Ministry were:
Dr. Wilhelm Hoegner
Dr. Franz Fendt
Dr. Fritz Terhalle
Dr. Ludwig Erhard
Dr. Wolfgang Jaenicke
Dr. Joseph Baumgartner
Dr. Anton Pfeiffer
Mr. Krauledat and Mr. Freeman acted as interpreters.
General Muller – Dr. Hoegner and Gentlemen of the Ministry. Our offices in Military Government are undergoing many changes today. The Military Government of Bavaria is being reorganized.3 For that reason I should like to first explain to you ministers the organization of Military Government here in Bavaria. The first thing, the Military Government personnel is being gradually reduced so that around June 1 we will have approximately 1.800 civilians, officers and enlisted men in the Military Government for Bavaria. As the American Military Government is reduced, the responsibilities that have been theirs must necessarily be taken over by your people. The organization is shown on this map and I will explain it in detail. We have shown the Land, Landkreis and the Stadtkreis. Landkreis here in yellow. In Munich we have our headquarters of the Office of Military Government for Bavaria with certain additional troops to assist us here. In each Regierungsbezirk we have one administrative company. The mission of this company is not one of Military Government but one of administration of the members of the Military Government in that Regierungsbezirk. Between now and June 1 the Regierungsbezirk will have to assist us in certain phases of the elections and certain other details we might give them to speed up denazification. In each Landkreis we will have approximately two officers and two enlisted men. We will have 118 of those.4 In each Land and Stadtkreis combination we will have five officers and approximately ten enlisted men. The mission of these detachments will be to maintain liaison with the tactical units, to help in the denazification, to supervise the local government to see that the directives of Military Government are properly carried out, also to act as summary court.5 They will have no functional activities. Those same duties will be performed by the Landkreis and Stadtkreis teams. From this headquarters will be sent into the field various functional teams such as Public Health, Economics, Transportation, Legal, Public Safety and various other branches from this headquarters. We shall deal with the German officials as we have been working up to through the Minister President. We know he has received a lot of papers lately. In the zone will be certain troops and we will appreciate it if anything comes up where the American troops have interfered with the operation of the local government you will let us know. I know that Dr. Hoegner and the ministers understand that in an emergency the troops will take over. As for the organization in Berlin, we have been dealing through Frankfurt. The Military Government that was in Frankfurt is now all moving to Berlin.6 Dr. Hoegner, I have invited you gentlemen here today to discuss any future problems and to clarify any situations that might lead to misunderstanding. This meeting, Dr. Hoegner, will give your ministers an opportunity to discuss these problems, something that is not only difficult, but sometimes impossible in the usual course of business contacts. It is my hope that in your deliberation you will get a better and more complete picture of the huge tasks we have ahaed of us. It is my hope and belief it will be profitable to meet again in the not too distant future to examine the results of the conference today. I trust that you will be free and open in your questions and discussions, and when you feel you need the assistance of Military Government you will not hesitate to call on me or any member of my staff for conference or assistance. Your ministers, Dr. Hoegner, have done an excellent job through some very difficult times. The next two months will bring certain problems which I know that you and your ministers will not only face but will present to the Bavarian people so that they will carry through without too uneasiness or unhappiness. I was informed by an officer the other day from Berlin that your ministry is about two years ahead of some of the other zones and about one year ahead of some of our other Landers. I know that there is not going to be any problem that you cannot face and face with a smile. The only thing I ask before turning the meeting over to Dr. Hoegner is that you not repeat especially what I have just said because we might make some of the other Landers mad with us, and you keep to yourself what I told you on this map. I now turn the meeting over to Dr. Hoegner.
Dr. Hoegner – Gentlemen, Officers of Military Government, Members of my staff, I wish to express my appreciation for your words of thanks you have found for my ministers and those working with them. We wanted to do all we could after the collapse of our homeland in our power for reconstruction. We accept with gratitude the words that you, General Muller, have found for me and the gentlemen working with me in recognition of the work we have been able to perform. The reduction of the personnel of Military Government adds great responsibility to us. We hope that with increasing efficiency of our administration we may discharge this responsibility, and now I will take the suggestion of the General not to talk too long but turn to practical matters.
Mr. Ficker – Seizure of refugee camps by the occupation troops: 21 refugee camps which had already been completed or were just before completion, have been seized of late for the purposes of the occupation forces in the area of the Third Army, thereby the existing great difficulties of the refugee problem became still greater and the handling of the refugee program begins to become impossible in some districts.
Major Davis – I was requested to answer this question even though it deals with housing. I represent the Refugee Section. Captain Hill of the Manpower Branch7, Military Government for Bavaria, had a conference with Major Martin of Third Army real estate.8 In the final analysis the Third Army real estate decides what buildings in Bavaria shall be taken. It was made clear at this conference that United States troops would have first priority on all buildings. However, Major Martin agreed that before tactical troops take over a building being used for refugee purposes he will consult with Captain Hill. Captain Hill will inform us that the installation is about to be taken over. This will give us an opportunity to present the needs of the refugees and expellees. It may be that in spite of our presentation of the case the building will be taken over any way by United States troops. However, we will know when a building is going to be taken over. We have in each Regierungsbezirk a refugee officer representing the Office of Military Government for Bavaria. We have instructed this officer to arrange for the printing of a sign. When the sign is printed it will be posed by this officer on each official distribution point for refugees. The sign will read as follows: Off limits to Military personnel. This building has been placed under the control of Military Government of Bavaria, with approval of Office of Military Government for Bavaria for use as a distribution point for German refugees and expellees under the Provisions of Paragraph 7a, General Order 337, Headquarters USFET, dated 14 December 1945. Any inquiries as to its use for other purposes on the part of United States Military personnel, UNRRA, or other agencies should be referred to Refugee Section, Plans and Operations Branch Office of Military Government for Bavaria. We think that by the posting of this notice some protection will be offered these buildings. May I mention confidentially that I have been informed that this movement of troops and the need for these houses is likely to be stabilized by 31 May. That is the answer we give to your question. It is not a complete answer, but it shows that we are interested in helping you to retain these buildings for the purposes of refugees and expellees.
General Muller – I might add, Dr. Hoegner, that during this present period with the movement of troops, the looking around for places for Military communities, there may be a great deal of uneasiness on the part of the Bavarian people, and it may be stabilized as Major Davis has said, and become better instead of worse.
Mr. Ficker – Identification cards for foreigners: In Wuerttemberg there are identification cards for all foreigners. Will it be possible to introduce such identification cards and curfew permits for foreigners living in Bavaria, and to authorize the rural police to check the foreigners? Could the rural police also be authorized to carry out checkings in foreigner's camps?
Captain Urton, Public Safety Branch – There are identification cards for foreigners in Bavaria. It is known as DP-2, and every displaced person should have one of these cards if they have a DP status, but if they are others here without DP status, they come under the same rules and regulations as the German population. In regard to the question as to whether the rural police were authorized to check these foreigners – The rural police and German city police are authorized to check foreigners and displaced persons away from DP camps. In regard to the question whether the rural police were authorized to carry out checkings in foreigner's camps – The rural police or no other German agency is authorized to enter or search or make any seizures in any displaced persons camp unless under the direct supervision of representatives of the Military Commander for the area. When it is necessary for the German police to enter or make searches in these camps they can make arrangements through the nearest Public Safety Officer who will make arrangements with the Military Commander.
Mr. Helmerich – Work in the railway repair shops and increase of the number of repaired locomotives and vans: The dismissal of workers is an imminent danger in the railway repair shops. These shops need more raw material – like iron, iron sheet, nails, screws, coal, coke, plywood, cardboard, etc. By increased allocations such dismissals might be prevented and it would moreover be possible to comply with the demand of the occupation power to increase the number of repaired locomotives and vans.
Colonel McGiffert, 9 Economics – This question referred to me is one that is actually under the railroads because the question is in regard to the railway repair shops rather than the economics. First, I do not understand the reason for dismissal of workers in as much as there is a demand for rail workers and car repairs in the industrial field in shops operated by industry performing the same tasks. As to raw materials, for the first time the railways have placed their requirements of raw materials before the Economics Division in Berlin. Up to this date the railways supply has been competing in the open market against the economic requirements of the area. This has been a source of great embarrassment as well as an influence which broke down normal channels of trade and normal rationing of German railroad requirements. This should now be corrected. A study of the problem is being undertaken immediately and requirements will be screened. Our information indicates that the railroads are now obtaining 40 to 50% of their allocations. We cannot predict what the outcome will be, but I know that industry can employ any of the workers who have to be released if the railroads do not have work for them.
Mr. Helmerich – Employment of all workers would stop at the moment when raw materials on hand have been exhausted.
Colonel McGiffert – I have nothing to add other than we can still employ the people in the rail shops operated by industry.
Mr. Helmerich – Repair of war damages to buildings and structures of the traffic administration, to bridges and roads: Increased allocation of cement, lime and plaster is required.
Colonel Giddens, Transportation – This question was referred to my branch as it dealt with roads and bridges. However, the answer had to come from building materials and construction section of Colonel McGiffert's Economics Branch. All available building materials over and above military requirements are at the disposal for stone and earth. The Landeswirtschaftsamt in turn allocates the material to the Minister of the Interior and Minister of Labor, as directed by the Minister of Economics. The repair of war damages for bridges and roads, the guiding principles for the maintenance of highways from Berlin state there shall be no reconstruction of the highway network except for the needs of the occupational forces or where required to meet the needs of the zone commander who will use only the resources of labor and materials available in his zone. The allocations of material for maintenance and new construction, for repair of war damages to roads and bridges must come within the limits of the authorized budgets with priority given to the Military road map. At the present time the maximum amount of cement, lime and plaster are being placed at the disposal of the Landeswirtschaftsamt.
Mr. Helmerich – Accident insurance for the personnel of Post and Railway: There is an insurance for the personnel of Post and Railways against sickness, unfitness for work and accident. This insurance can only exist if the insurance premiums originating from Bavaria will be left to these institutions in Bavaria.
Lt. Baker, Manpower – The entire social insurance problem is being studied by the social insurance branch of the Manpower Division in Berlin. A new directive covering the entire social insurance program10 will be issued from Berlin in the near future. That problem will be covered in this directive. Until this directive is promulgated the present regulations will have to continue. The social insurance branch is cognizant of this specific problem and for the responsibility of the outstanding insurance coverage of personnel of Post and Railways.
Mr. Ficker – Military Censorship: It has been stated that important or urgent mail of the Government or of subordinate agencies have been underway far beyond the normal time, partly up to 14 days. This was mainly mail subjected to Military Censorship. Deadlines, partly given by Military Government, could not be complied with and important instructions could not be executed punctually. Is there a possibility to give preferential treatment to mail which recognizably originates from Government agencies – if a censorship is thought necessary – and to pass them on again without delay?
Intelligence – This question was handed to me this morning, and after a conference was held with the Civil Censorship Division, it was agreed that all the mail emanating from all Governmental agencies of Bavaria will be given top priority by the Civil Censorship Division if the outer-envelope is marked „urgent“ and if any delay will be entailed by reason of the censoring of mail, it will not exceed 24 hours.
Dr. Hoegner – This concludes all the questions that were made by the Germans. We now turn to questions of Military Government.
Is the supply of vehicles, that is passenger cars, trucks, and trailers sufficient to meet the minimum needs of the German economy? If not, why have vehicles been removed from the list of critical and/or rationed items?
Mr. Helmerich – The supply of passenger cars, trucks and trailers in Land Bavaria can be called sufficient to cover the minimum requirements of German economy.
Dr. Hoegner – What is the present status between the three Lander for the reallocation of trucks from one Land to another?
Mr. Ficker – The balance of the distribution of automotive vehicles within the Three Lander of the United States zone is being handled by the Landerrat at Stuttgart. This Landerrat establishes the quotas for those vehicles that have to be turned in. Action is being taken by this organization balancing the supply of these vehicles at the present time. Approximately 400 vehicles have been turned over to the other Lander in the United States zone by Bavaria. It should be noted that before a definite policy was established and quotas met by the Landerrat, approximately the equal number 400 vehicles found their way from Bavaria to the different Lander of the United States zone.
Dr. Hoegner – What are the plans of the Bavarian Ministry of Finance for the administrative cost of the Expellee Program? To date majority of employees of the refugee Commission have received no salary and only offers of partial advances. Why is it not possible to pay these employees?
Dr. Terhalle – The organization of the refugee program is the duty of the Ministry of the Interior and the State Commissioner for refugee matters respectively, who is subordinate to that Ministry. The Ministry of Finance will only come into it when the budget plan has to be prepared.11 This plan will be established according to agreements between the two Ministries. Proposals for the budget plan, particularly for the plan of positions upon which it is based, will have to be furnished by the State Commissioner. The first plan of positions has been received by the Ministry of Finance on February 5, 1946 after repeated urging. It has at once been discussed in a conference with the State Commissioner and his staff. The result of this conference was a promise of the State Commissioner to submit a new and improved plan instead of the extremely overstaffed plan. Not before February 16, a new plan of positions was submitted to the Ministry of the Interior, and this was not the plan agreed upon with the Ministry of Finance, but an even more overstaffed one. This plan has only been received on March 2, by the Ministry of Finance upon request. On March 4, the refugee commissioner's office was informed that this plan was beyond discussion. On March 9, the Ministry of Finance then received the modified plan of positions. It was this plan which essentially complied with the agreement of February 5. If the promise of the State Commissioner of February 5 had been kept this considerable delay would not have occured. The delay has obviously been used to supersede the arrangements made by newly appointing several referents. The complete basic data for the establishment of a workable budget plan have been submitted to the Ministry of Finance not before March 20 and only after an urgent request by the Ministry of Finance. This is obviously a consequence of the extremely great strain upon the refugee commissioner, mainly owing to his many travels to the widespread outpost organization. It is the duty of the State Commissioner to submit the employment contracts concluded with his collaborators to the Ministry of Finance for approval. In spite of repeated advice given to the staff of the State Commissioner by the Ministry of Finance, and in spite of repeated requests of the Ministry of Finance, not a single contract of that kind and not a single personnel file has been submitted to the Ministry of Finance up to now. Pending the consent to the concluded service-contracts, the employees may not be paid the agreed salary, but only advances upon such salary. Payment of advances, however, is not a charge of the Ministry of Finance, but of the Ministry to which the State Commissioner is subordinate. It is, of course, the task of the State Commissioner, to apply to his Ministry for advances in sufficient amounts. According to the investigations of the Ministry of Finance, the employees have been paid advances amount to about 3/4 of this total salaries by the Ministry of the Interior. As a consequence of the increased tax deductions caused by the tax laws of the Control Council, payments have been reduced from March on by an adequate amount. By the way, the pay roll office of the Ministry of the Interior states, that they have repeatedly got in touch with all the new employed persons, in order to get the basis for advanced payments; the new employees, as a rule, do not take the necessary steps in order to get advances.
Dr. Hoegner – The responsibility of resettling expellees to the extent of securing housing facilities, has been placed under the Ministry of Labor, Housing Section. What plans have they made to coordinate with the Refugee Officials of the local level? At present approximately how many people do their surveys show can be absorbed in Bavarian homes?
Mr. Ficker – If housing or settlement space is needed, the Commissioner for expellees makes a request to the housing authorities. Requests will be made by this housing authority acting upon the request of the Commissioner for expellees. The coordination between this commissioner and authority in charge of housing will take place through the Landrat and in the Stadtkreis through the Oberburgermeister. According to temporary estimates, 300.000 persons can be housed in private homes in Bavaria. The exact statistics have not as yet been completed.
Dr. Hoegner – What is the policy regarding coordination of the various Ministries of the Land Government? Numerous problems regarding the handling of expellees are settled in this office although they seem to be purely a matter of coordinating various civilian agencies.
Mr. Ficker – If a minister is working on a certain problem which also concerns another minister, the two ministers before reaching any decision would have to confer with each other and a decision would have to be made which is in accordance with both points of view. The coordination of the different ministeries is supervised by the Minister President. Another factor for helping in this coordination is the weekly meeting of the Ministerrat in which the different ministers go and talk over their problems.12
Dr. Hoegner – How many people in Land Bavaria do you estimate will be subject to Denazification under the national „Law for Liberation from National Socialism and Militarism“?
Mr. Schmitt – I estimate approximately 12% of the Bavarian population amounting to 900.000 people.13
Dr. Hoegner – How long do you estimate that it will take before fragebogens have been completely distributed and the courts have completed classifying and judging all appeals?
Mr. Schmitt – Up to this point 2.500.000 fragebogens have already been sent out. 6.000.000 have been printed and we estimate that in a week and a half the task will be complete. The estimate for the time it would take to complete the classifying and judging of all appeals is placed at one year.
Dr. Hoegner – Do you expect to experience any insurmountable difficulties in recruiting the absolutely politically clean personnel necessary as members of the tribunals?
Mr. Schmitt – No.14
Dr. Hoegner – What steps have been completed in the reorganization of the Lander Welfare Department?
Mr. Ficker – So far three main divisions have their personnel assigned to them. First the German Public Welfare headed by Mr. Solleder.15 Organization for the welfare in general by Mr. Aumer,16 and the office for the supervision of young people by Mrs. Lutz. The Statistical Department for supervising all files in connection with Public Welfare for Bavaria will be supervised by Mr. Wilhelm Müller. For those who have suffered injuries by the war, Mr. Münsterer17 and Mr. Röhrig.18 For the problem of special tasks, Mr. Hofbauer and Mr. Hörner are assigned. The fragebogens of these at this time are still in the Office of Military Government awaiting clarification.
Dr. Hoegner – What methods are used to insure sufficient financing of Public Welfare in order to insure the maintenance of established minimum standards?
Mr. Ficker – This Land organization turns to the Regierungsbezirk President. He in turn gets in touch with Minister of the Interior and the Minister meets this emergency by the granting of a temporary credit.
General Muller – That concludes the meeting.